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  • To begin, I recommend reading the book, Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion, written by Dr. Paul A. LaViolette. (  ) 

    My father was an electrical engineer, graduate of CalTech, in the 1950's working for one of the top aerospace contractors (mentioned several times in Secrets).  He would come home and, with enthusiasm and excitement, tell Me about His work in electrogravitics.  He would attempt to teach Me its principles (though I was merely a precocious toddler), tell Me about the results of His latest experiment, and describe the world I would be growing up in:  cars would fly, cities would float, and We would have all the energy We could use.

    I remember when He came home from working late and woke Me up to tell Me I couldn't talk about electrogravitics.  We couldn't talk about the flying cars or the floating cities, couldn't mention the free energy, couldn't even say the word, "electrogravitics" - because "They want it secret for now." That was in late 1959 or maybe early 1960. I was around 3 years old. 

    The reasons given for the pull into black ops suggest "weaponization" of this tech... However, the REAL reason for this move had EVERYTHING to do with its free energy capabilities. And here's why: 

    All money represents is meaningful energy expended. If One finds a fruit tree and gathers the fruit and brings it to another, the value is NOT in the free fruit, but in One's energy in picking and transporting it. Same for the farmed stuffs - the seed (originally), the sun, the rain and the soil (originally) were free. The farmer's energy in preparing, tending and harvesting are what contain the value. 

    And same for ores mined, meat hunted, fish fished, etc. 

    Now, given that money is the accounting tool in an energy-scarce world, adding abundant and free energy (either directly or in the form of robots taking place of Human energy) would eliminate the need for money. And given that the power elite use money for power in energy scarcity, adding such energy is THE major threat to Them. 

    With such addition, Each will lose power over others in favor of autonomous power over Self. The "rich" will not lose materially - there is more than enough of everything for 10 times the present population on this planet (distributed by profit, not need, leading to HUGE waste) - but the "rich" WILL lose Their power over Us. 

    And They fear losing power over Their Human "sheep" - or "cattle." And so, when it became clear that electrogravitics offered unlimited energy - energy abundance - They took it out of the public domain, have suppressed technologies that use it, and even ensured that the "known" (and wrong) Einsteinian theories could not be "broken" on any patent.

    To the end of breaking the secrecy, I have submitted to the wiki here articles on electrogravitics, Human energy, and a planetary "party" which is more a set of seeds to fractalize society into positive development in a free energy society.
  • 77 Comments sorted by
  • I have marked the pages you added to the wiki for speedy deletion, because they are pseudo-scientific babble, or promoting a specific political party, which is inappropriate for a non-profit like OSE.
  • Excuse Me, but...

    1. This is not "pseudoscience" I discuss. I have knowledge of it, and if You see it as "pseudoscience," and are suppressing the information, You are part of the problem. I gave You a link to valuable information, and if You have not read it, You are shorting Yourself of understanding, at best.

    2. The "party," as I state, is NOT a political party. It is a seed, a code, put together under the Betterment Ethic, to assist Humanity. There are no leaders. Leaders of the moment will emerge as problems need solving, through stigmergy (there's a thread here about that). But if You don't want to understand what We CAN do on this planet, and stick to the suppressed science and the oppressed status quo... I guess this isn't the site for Me after all.
  • I have read your reference, and if electrons had negative weight, someone would have noticed it by now by deviation of electron beams or charge separation in plasmas, for example the radiation belts around the Earth, or the solar plasma around the Sun.  Provide a video of a working model and I will be happy to investigate further.  And I am not suppressing anything.  The text is still on the wiki, and if it gets deleted, you are free to post it elsewhere.  OSE is developing practical machines, it is not a place for conspiracy theories.

    (and yes, it is pseudoscience until you have an experiment that shows the effect, and it's reviewed by non-partisan observers)
    (and I don't have any official position here, I'm just a retired engineer who is building a drill press)

    ETA: Corrected mass to weight, I was not precise enough in my terms
  • Electrons do NOT have "negative mass."  They have negative GRAVITY.  Their mass is as it is measured to be.

    Maybe the problem is that Your reading comprehension needs work...

    You might check out subquantum kinetics, developed from chemical kinetics, and predicted the electrogravitational effects before the developer had heard of the work of T. Townsend Brown (this initially worried Him) - but found that subquantum kinetics describes Brown's findings to a T.

    (And all observers are partisan...  Some are better at relinquishing Their views in light of additional data than others.)

    EDIT to add:  Subquantum kinetics has made more testable (and tested) predictions than relativity, quantum mechanics and string theory combined...

    EDIT to add:  I am conspiracy AWARE.  A good look at history will make it clear that conspiracy is the NORM.  If We do not break out of the mindset that this inconvenient truth is no longer true, We are doomed.
  • OK, negative weight, tending to fall up in the Earth's gravity field.  Fairbank and Witteborn tested this and they fall down:  "Experiments to Determine the Force of Gravity on Single Electrons and Positrons,
    F.C. Witteborn and W.M. Fairbank, Nature 220, 436 (1968)" 

  • Of course They fall down.  The negative gravity of a single electron is extremely small, and the net gravity of the Earth, as observed, is much greater.

    That is irrelevant.

    From: , a paper released from the Army Research Laboratory.

    Under Summary and Suggested Future Work

    We have presented a brief history of the Biefeld-Brown effect:  a net force is observed on an 
    asymmetric capacitor when a high voltage bias is applied.  The physical mechanism responsible 
    for this effect is unknown.  In section 4, we have presented estimates of the force on the 
    capacitor due to the effect of an ionic wind and due to charge drift between capacitor electrodes.  
    The force due to ionic wind is at least three orders of magnitude too small.  The force due to 
    charge drift is plausible, however, the estimates are only scaling estimates, not a microscopic 

    Subquantum kinetics, with negatively charged particles having a negative gravity potential "hill" and positively charged particles with a positive gravity potential "well" predicts this "three orders of magnitude" difference between the ion wind (which places like Wikipedia attribute the Biefield-Brown effect to, despite experiments in oil and vacuum conditions that still show thrust greater than the ion wind that doesn't develop in oil or vacuum) and observed behavior.

    Enjoy the read of that report.  [smile]

    EDIT to add:  Here's more reading:
  •'re going to build one, right? You know, to prove that it works. Something you posted implied it was just a giant capacitor made out of two iron plates, a piece of glass, and 100,000 volts. Here, build a Van de Graaff generator and post a video of your giant capacitors spinning under their own power.
  • No, Matt.  I am a well-read, electrogravitics aware (through both My father and My research), writer/editor, graphics/multimedia designer, video editor, who has bad luck in getting employed in this very depressed economy (read Malcolm Gladwell's Outliers to see that the single most important factor in success is luck) and am homeless and penniless.

    I cannot build anything.

    If I was still making $60,000 a year...  But I lost that job because of 9/11.

    Still, plenty of People have built these things and the information is out there.  I have offered links.  I can offer many more...
  • The trouble is Amaterasu... well read or not... you are buying into nonsense. 
    Electrons have negative gravity, but not negative mass?  Really?   BUNK! 
    Your sources are conflating electromagnetic forces and gravity.  They are separate and distinct.  Gravity is a function of mass, not electrical charge.

    Calling this pseudoscience is generous.  Absurd seems more apt.  Or perhaps fantasy or delusion.

    What you claim cannot be resolved versus general relativity and does not supplant it.  FAIL!
  • Look.  My father, a CalTech graduate and an electrical engineer at a top aerospace company, was very psyched about electrogravitics.  He would tell Me about experiments wherein he would see lift, and acceleration beyond anything the ion wind can produce.  Well-read or not, I KNOW it was deeply classified because He told Me so.

    If You are too stuck in the comfortable Einsteinian pablum maintained because it doesn't predict electrogravitic effects, enjoy that.

    Here's an interesting table:

    Look, it is because of My knowledge of this tech, and My awareness of WHY it is suppressed, and My deep concern with how things are shaping up (NDAA, "Patriot" Act, etc) and My love of Humanity - which is beautiful, but twisted under the burden of the ill-fitting yoke of a money system that oppresses and promotes the LOVE of MONEY (the root of all evil, don't ya know) - that I am even motivated to bring this awareness to You.

    If You will not look, if You disparage and decry, I know You are close-minded and afraid.

    And sometimes I muse about pearls before swine.
  • I really don't think OSE is any where near the position to be trying out half-baked dream science; maybe when it's completed the GVCS-9000 people will have the time to try out some blue sky research proposals and maybe someone one will be credulous enough to investigate your electrogravitics - if you want to investigate it on your own however i'm sure we'd all be interested to see how that turns out. 
    Oh and not to be overly picky but i simply don't believe any story that involves a three year old being told not to talk about electrogravitics or any other six syllable world for that matter!  
  • FYI...  My first memory is at about the age of one...  I have a very clear memory of My father beaming at Me - I was 2ish - for saying the word, "electrogravitics."  For what that's worth.  I always have been a wee bit brighter than the average bear.

    And if OSE is not not the place to tell about something I KNOW about that will end poverty, hunger and war...  Meh.  (I love Your choice of words.  "Half-baked dream science," My rump.)


    Pearls before swine, indeed.


  • @danielravennestyour reason does not match our current policy regarding deletions, which can be read at:

    It reads:

    When to Delete

    A page is a good candidate for deletion if:

    - it is clearly and beyond a doubt spam or complete nonsense (nonsense like "asd asdffasewsjh asdfl" and similar sequences of characters)

    - it's a redirect page whose title has nothing to do with the page it redirects to

    -- As an example, we had a page titled My resume containing someone's resume. All pages pointing to My resume were updated to point to the user's resume, and all pages that pointed to it were updated to reflect the new title.

    Another example: a page named How to cook using only sunlight that redirects to Arduino controller schematics doesn't make sense. Either redirect it to a page that deals with the subject of cooking using only sunlight, or delete it.

  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    Thank you Amaterasu. It takes courage to come out and push open development of this material. I encourage you not to leave so quickly.

    To those who think that this isn't a worthwhile endevour I would say it's like any of the other projects: just don't work on it. I don't think we have to worry about OSE money going towards this either, since we're only interested in paying for solid, well-developed designs.

    So why not just let those people who are interested in this subject volunteer their time? @elifarley, thanks for pointing out the guidelines.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    See above post
  • I'll stick around, Jason, since I was asked nicely.  (Before You edited...  [smile])

  • Oh, and Daniel...

    I reviewed Your post speaking of negative WEIGHT...  Weight is a function of gravity.  You have no weight in outer space.

    Of course, since the gravity well created by positive charge is ever so slightly greater than the hill of a negative charge, the huge amount of (generally) neutral mass of the Earth creates more well than hill force.  Science in the Einsteinian court has scratched it's collective head over the comparative weakness of the gravitational force - when, in fact it is quite strong, and, like the other forces, has a positive and negative element which nearly cancel each other out.  The atom is nearly (but not quite) neutral with equal protons and electrons.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    I'm not a scientist or particularly well versed in much of what is being discussed here. I do however have an open mind and wouldn't discount anything on a whim. I think it is folly to assume that we know everything about everything, if anything science has shown us that we know very little about the universe. That being said, while having knowledge about something is great it is more or less useless until it can be applied. I have know doubt that the information regarding electrogravics is a great asset to someone in this field of research, who has the know-how and resources to apply it. It may, however, be nothing but interesting information in a project like the GVCS which is geared more towards open source industrial application of mostly existing technology.

    There is a place for this information you ate presenting Amaterasu, whether it is here or elsewhere. I would hope that people realize that the only difference between the GVCS and electrogravics at present is one of discipline. Both are 'fringe' in our modern capitalist society, an neither are guaranteed to be 100% successful.

  • Thank You, Danial.

    The fact of the matter is that electrogravitics has been developed by some Humans for over 50 years.  The object, then, is to spread awareness of it to the tipping point such that the population as a whole DEMANDS it.  Any project that does not remove the control of today's power elite is likely to be urinating into the wind.

    My role (and any Others who become aware) is to spread that awareness.

    IF We can wrest free energy tech from secrecy, We will have well-developed tech.  With many who have vast knowledge.  And We can then build the tech for cars, industry, and so on, removing the cost of energy all down the line.  Things will become cheaper and cheaper (and that goes for robots, too) and We can begin putting robots into any necessary jobs noOne wants to do, and things will become cheaper still, until We reach a point where collecting that penny for a week's groceries will be more effort than the penny is worth.

    Some have asked Me, Who will repair the robots?  The answer is Those whose bliss it is to work on robots - and the repair robots that Those whose bliss it is to build robots create.  And looking around...I don't think We have a shortage of People who love to work on robots, both building them and repairing them.

    In fact...  Many are NOT doing so because They can't afford to do so.  I'm sure You can see what everything being free means to THAT group.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    Suppression of technology by corporate (government) interests as a conspiracy THEORY???  Really?  There is no theory here gentlemen.  Some folks need to get out more often.

    The modern wasteful world is in deep trouble.  Look around.  I would add that OSE is here because of such things occurring on a huge scale.

    OK....I feel better now.....:)

  • Welcome to the thread, Dawg!

    Yeah, as I said, conspiracy is the norm.  Those who believe there are no conspiracies do indeed need to take a good look around.
  • This example...

    ...shows the capacitors producing force perpendicular to gravity. This example...

    ...shows the capacitors producing force parallel to gravity.

    That would seem to leave an observer with the impression that the force is determined by the orientation of the capacitors...which seems to strongly imply the force has nothing to do with gravity, since that didn't change direction.

  • Hmmmm...  And the "lifters" are just ionic wind - despite the fact that several papers point out the lift is three orders of magnitude higher than what ion wind can account for?

    And yes.  The orientation matters.  The thrust, whether perpendicular or parallel to the Earth's gravitational field, is still there, and three orders of magnitude greater than ion wind.

    The force is created by an independent gravity field, with the capacitor "falling" in the positive direction, carrying it's gravity field along with it.
  • You keep repeating that even though the "three orders of magnitude" toss has been long since debunked.  It just ain't so.

    This is like discussing evolution with a young-earth-creationist.  They hold a faith-based irrational belief from which they will not waiver regardless of observable reality so ALL scientific evidence to the contrary must be rejected or misinterpreted.  Same thing here.  Generates ridiculous phrases like: "Einsteinian pablum"  ROFL!  Only difference, hate Einstein rather than Darwin, meh.

    News flash:  YOUR messiah, Paul LaViolette, is an utter crackpot. 
    • He ACTUALLY asserts that the stellar constellations are a deeply encrypted message from ancient civilizations.  Oh yeah and the tarot is too.
    • He claims that there was a mass extinction event about 14000 years ago (there was none such) and he cites as evidence a study of arctic ice core samples and beryllium concentrations at that period.
    • He claims these beryllium deposits are the result of periodic blasts of cosmic dust from the galactic center, and one such blast deposit was laid down about 14000 years ago, according to the study.
    • The study he cites does not reach this conclusion, and in fact the data from that study directly contradicts it.  There is ABSOLUTELY NO EVIDENCE in the study of peak beryllium deposits in the ice core samples anywhere close to that time range. 
    • He claims that pulsars are intelligent communications from space.  To the contrary, they are naturally occurring phenomena that are fairly well understood by astrophysicists and cosmologists who are rational.
    • His claims of electogravitcs are about as far into the realms of junk-science and charlatanism as all of the rest of his nonsense.
    • Amaterasu would have us give more credence to the writings of this chowder-head than to Einstein and the rest of known physics.   No thank you.
  • Clifton, darling, He isn't MY "messiah."  Many scientists have had odd ideas about things other that the science They're working with.  This hardly invalidates Their science.  I think His ideas on OTHER THINGS are a bit out there.  But I do not therefore assume that He has no valid input on science as You are doing.  Good grief!

    Do show where the three orders of magnitude has been debunked.  I offered some scientific papers to support My claims.  Where's Yours?

    Given that Dr. LaViolette's math/science seems to work better, giving more testable (and tested) predictions than relativity, quantum mechanics and string theory combined, how is it that You have chosen to disbelieve it based on His views of things unrelated?
  • If the capacitors are producing their own local gravity field then please link to a prototype, like the last two I compared, which shows a capacitor attracting something else with its new gravity well, as opposed to moving itself. Perhaps several capacitors arranged in a ring such that by turning their gravity wells on and off a rotor in the middle of the ring can be made to moved, like a stepper motor. You seem to be basically asserting that a capacitor is like an electromagnet for gravity. Therefore, it should be easy to demonstrate a motor powered by capacitors rather than electromagnets. 
  • Well, Matt...  Here We get into the sticky of conspiracy...  T.Townsend Brown (and My father, and others in aerospace) did experiments which are anecdotal at best.  Others have no doubt done work on this as well.  Most all of this has been suppressed.

    I do, however, recommend reading Secrets of Antigravity Propulsion  ) for a detailed description of Brown's work as a good collection of what We have available.  Though, as pointed out above, the author, Dr. Paul A. LaViolette, has odd ideas on other things, nowhere in Secrets does He bring them up, sticking with patents, diagrams from communications, and other documents.  He also shows how NASA too suppresses things...

    Do read, and I will try to answer any questions You may have when You're done.  [smile]
  • My bad.  I shouldn't have put words in your mouth with "Messiah".  Perhaps you prefer "Prophet" or "Buddha" or "Guru" or "Anointed One" or "Grand-Thetan" or "Wile E. Coyote, Suuuuuper-Genius" or some such thing.  I will not presume to decide what title by which you choose to revere him religiously, and simply recognize the fact of it.  That's all better now, isn't it?

    Here's the thing, he represents ALL of those things as science.  Even the secret messages in the constellations... This stems from his elite combination of paleantology and cryptography.  All mixed with heaping helpings of hogswallow.

    These findings supposedly CAME directly from a "scientific" analysis of those ice core samples.... uh... which he never touched... and the actual data which he sited completely shows the FRAUD of his assertions. 

    And even if the beryllium levels WERE truly elevated when he claimed they were (which they weren't) his assertion that they came from periodic bursts from galactic center is ... just like his findings about so-called electrogravitics... a case of hearing hoofbeats and looking for zebras... if you hear hoofbeats you are far more likely to see a horse than a zebra, so why postulate the far-fetched notion first?  Changes in weather patterns and/or changes in solar activity are vastly more plausible scenarios to explain such a phenomenon than galactic center blowouts, but "The Almighty Chucklehead" or whatever you label him prefers ridiculous explanations, so he went with that.  But this is science here... even if the math is fuzzier than a tribble's butt.

    Which brings us full circle to Paul The Purple's "divine science of electrogravitics chockful of similarly ridiculous assertions, like "Electrons have negative gravity", backed by math and claims as fuzzy as all the others.  The man's ENTIRE body of work is rubbish but with religious fervor you defend this one area because, back before you were in pre-school,  Daddy violated his top-secret clearance and  indoctrinated you to what would be incredibly advanced physics (if any of this nonsense were true) and all before the age of 3... WOW!

    And to your final assertion that His Holy Purpleness produces results more testable and more tested all of physics.  OMG!  you made me snarf lemonade out of my nose... that was hilarious.  The entirety of the world physics community, and all of the reputable peer reviewed journals are, to your mind, less rigorously tested than a guy with a questionable Ph.D. who is only published in vanity presses and the websites of his own and his direct cohorts.  Is there ANYTHING that your confirmation bias will NOT support with regard to this dude?
  • Really? That's the best you've got? You cited two home-made prototypes as examples of functional electrogravitics devices, which should demonstrate that the technology is not only well within the capabilities of the average hobbyist, but also freely available on the internet. That is the opposite of a conspiracy suppressing highly technical research. 

    Then, when I engage with your idea on a purely intellectual level, taking it at face value and asking simple questions about how the effect manifests, you retreat to the coy "I'll explain AFTER you read this book" response?

    Not good enough. A person who was honestly trying to better the human race by pushing electrogravitics into the mainstream would jump at the chance to show someone it actually worked. 

    Hell...according to those prototypes you linked to, even a homeless guy could build one after quick visit to a few dumpsters. Instead of spending your time demonstrating the technology you take every opportunity to return to the vague assertion that if people would just read stuff everything would become clear to them. You know what makes things clear to people? Demonstrations. That's why all technical classes include demonstrations.

    If you didn't seem like a troll before you definitely do now.
  • [sigh]  Clifton, I appreciate His insight into subquantum kinetics, which has proven far more useful than relativity (which, speaking of "guru," Einstein asks Us to take on faith that matter bends space-time - NOWHERE does He explain how and/or why!), quantum mechanics or string theory (which makes ZERO testable predictions).

    All the rest of the stuff You bring up is IRRELEVANT.

    And, as I have pointed out, Dr. LaViolette started with chemical kinetics in developing subquantum kinetics and found it predicted electrogravitic aspects - positive particles having gravity potential "wells," negative particles having gravity potential "hills" - and was quite concerned.  Nothing in the Einsteinian faith suggested it.

    Then He encountered T. Townsend Brown's work and found that subquantum kinetics explained that work perfectly.

    Also...  I begin questioning YOUR reading comprehension.  My father was teaching Me (a rather bright child with memories back to one year of age) BEFORE the tech was pulled into black ops.  It was on the night that He came home and told Me We couldn't talk about it that it became "top-secret."  So...  No.  He did NOT violate anything.  After that night, He never mentioned it once.

    Oh...  And "peer review" is mostly a way to ensure information outside of the Einsteinian faith is suppressed.  If One offers something that breaks the "laws" of "known" physics, One gets no peer review.  Where else would You expect to find work (and the crazy stuff) to be published that explains what the power elite want hidden from general scientific circles?

    But I guess You're in the camp that We have solved the problem of conspiracies in this age...  Conspiracy is the norm throughout history.
  • Childhood memories are known to be unreliable.  You need to find a better source if you want anyone to take you seriously.  (Actually, even adult memories are unreliable, as experiments to show how much witnesses actually see and can remember for court show)

  • Hey i got a conspiracy theory!  
    Amaterasu has been sent by agents of the tractor cartel to try and distract and annoy the community while making us look like yet another group of crackpots on the internet thus putting off sensible people from joining, she's on a secret mission to spread woo and psudo-science about free energy from the phellum using match sticks and twigs or electrogravitic magic from every day electric components....  
    Statements denying the entire base of modern physics simply aren't sensible, certainly not if you're going to off hand suggest these things have never been tested, quantum mechanics has made countless predictions which have borne true, as Fyneman said it's margin or error has been proportional to 'predicting a distance as great as the width of North America to an accuracy of one human hair's breadth.'  The real point is science simply doesn't work in a way which allows huge things like free-energy to be hidden, not only would countries like Soviet Russia or modern China have every reason possible to exploit any such discovery they'd certainly use this electrogravitics if it's as easy as you say.  However of course that points effectively moot because our model of science doesn't have places for that kind of hidden knowledge to hide, not only do universities perform the majority of study but organizations like IBM are working tirelessly to unlock new potential - performing feats like storing data on a single atom and all sorts of magic.  To assume everyone with a detailed understanding of these fields is part of a huge conspiracy is absurd, it would include huge amounts of people - plus they'd need to have found a fake theory to cover it up which is strong enough to withstand the scrutiny of university students, hobby-scientists and academics the world over.  It simply doesn't make any sense they'd do this even if they could.  
    Now i obviously don't really believe my joke conspiracy and certainly not your crazy electrogravits theory - however yse conspiracies do happen and in all sorts of ways and forms - some of the most pressing and very real conspiracies are price fixing cartels and inbuilt obsolescences; these aren't crack-pot theories and you can tell that because 'life cycle' is part of any design course, because the cartels are named and documented - there's a reason my mp3 player from china could just plug into my computer to copy files, why it could play pretty much anything i put on it and dozens of other things a more expensive ipod can't - it's corporate greed and a profit protectionist model of business (i.e. the RIAA).  These are the conspiracies which open source projects like OSE are hoping to come some way to defeating and in doing so breaking the hold which powerful corporations have on the basic necessities of life, this is a vitally important task, it's a hugely pragmatic step and one which must be taken using tried and tested mechanics in ways which are repeatable the world over - of course the 'tractor cartel' was a joke but the huge amounts of control wielded by a tiny fraction of the population via their absolute corporate dominance is ensuring that basic machinery is too expensive and too proprietary for the majority of people, it's ensuring that all but a fraction of the world population are locked to a never ending chain of debt and dependence.  These are the conspiracies we need to break, these are the technologies we need to unlock - simple things which allow people to step away from the industrial revolutions plutocratic despots and establish a free and sustainable life.  
    If you're sure that electrogravitics is the solution to the worlds problem then study up and build a prototype, all you're doing with these crackpot dreams is distracting people who have more important things to think about, more practical projects to involve themselves in.  
  • danielr,

    I guess none of Us remember anything.  It's all faulty.

    Really, My father's excitement DEFINED My early life, and painted a picture of the future I never forgot.  That it never was realized has been the source of My drive.  I want My daughter to grow up in that world My father promised Me.

    (She turned 9 today...I was 46 when She was born.)
  • UtopianPragmatist,

    You are good at attacking character and making pseudological statements.  Methinks YOU are on a secret mission with WAY too much invested here.

    You said, "Statements denying the entire base of modern physics simply aren't sensible..." which is interesting because the "entire base" is not denied.  It is better explained.  "Making statements that the world is not flat simply isn't sensible..."

    There are many quandaries in science that subquantum kinetics demystifies or explains.  The fact that it explains the results of T.T. Brown's work suggests its a better model than the "take it on faith that matter bends spacetime" Einsteinian approach.

    But, You know...  Believe what You wish.

    EDIT to add:  I explained WHY, in My first post, free energy is suppressed.  And if You'd read the thread You would know WHY I cannot build ANYTHING.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    I've been following this conversation since it was started several days ago.  Like several people who have responded, I'm skeptical of electrogravitics as a power or motive source.  Still, the videos and some of the links provided suggest that something is going on, though I seriously doubt it is anti-gravity.

    What I'd really like to comment on is the discussion going on here.  Several posters have responded to your [Amaterasu] post strongly and emotionally.  Clearly, they are offended by your proposal and defense of it as being a massive cover up.  The goals of OSE are not well served by attacking someone's ideas.  Neither is it served by ideas that can't be substantiated.  Links to sites that claim to support your proposal have some merit, but since they fly in the face of conventional theory, they need to be substantiated and verified.  I've looked over the supporting evidence and I've looked over the counter arguments (though I admit that I haven't spent a lot of time on this).  The counter arguments seem sound to me and from reliable sources.  They cannot be waved away as "supporting the suppression of knowledge", without disproving them or showing a counter example that the arguments do not explain.  This is how basic science works - theory is tested by experiments.  Evidence modifies theory.

    Setting aside the whole conspiracy angle, what would you have OSE do, Amaterasu?  OSE is not a research organization.  We take well established technology and use it to build useful machines free of patents and other IP encumbrances that can be used to benefit society as a whole.  Theoretically, electrogravitics (etc) would be of tremendous benefit to society as a whole.  I'd like for someone (perhaps you) to explain how.  For example, if you tell me how to build a lifter mechanism that will levitate a human of average weight with minimal energy requirements, that would be very useful.  Tin foil and balsa lifters weighing but a few grams isn't very useful - as interesting as they might be.

    Tell us how to apply this technology in a useful fashion.  If you cannot, then OSE will need to set it aside and wait until it matures (if it ever does).  We have work to do.

    - Mark Norton

  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    I don't think there will be any funding for this, but I think that a few forum threads will allow anyone who is interested to pm others, and possibly get together.

    So I think that these are good threads, and the interested people should communicate among themselves and in the forums. If everyone realizes that just because it's discussed in the forums doesn't mean that it is or will be an OSE project, then that is the best atmosphere for discussion.
  • Mark,

    My purpose is to spread awareness.  Keep the information in mind.  Spread it.  It is to the tipping point that the awareness needs to get before We can demand the tech from its secret hiding place.

    As to Your comment, "The counter arguments seem sound to me and from reliable sources," I am unclear what sources You're speaking of.  I provided links to papers, video, and websites that support My contentions.  I have seen no links to ANYTHING for counter arguments...

    Perhaps I missed them and You can point them out...?
    Apparently magnets rule and capacitors can suck it. Maybe they could also simulate micro-gravity by digging a really deep hole. Sometimes you've just got to work with the tools you have until the conspiracy can be lifted.
  • Jason,

    Thank You for Your comment.  Indeed, I expect no funding, but only a raising of awareness, and hopefully the spread of the information.

    And if awareness is the goal, indeed, threads such as this one are good.
  • Matt,

    Magnets "simulate" a gravitational field of microgravity because of the intimate link between electromagnetism and gravity.  It is an actual independent gravitational field that is being created.

    But to produce antigravity, capacitors that can "carry along" their gravitational field are better than magnetically induced fields.  And the overunity necessarily requires electrogravitic components.

    Interesting article.  Thank You for the link.  [smile]
  • I'm still loving the idea that capacitors are a gravity source and somehow only a couple people have ever noticed. Seems like that would have been 1) easy to demonstrate and 2) wildly popular.

    This thread reminds me of why I never watch those ghost hunter shows. I figure that, since the show isn't aired until 6 months after it was filmed, there can't possibly by anything new in it. If the crew actually HAD discovered evidence of a ghost I would have heard about it approximately 30 seconds after it was filmed, everyone would have know about it right away...not 6 months later. Just like those shows, this thread is saturated with POSSIBILITY but nothing new ever happens. It's all breathless anticipation and no practical results. 

    Amaterasu, you need to modernize your pitch. That conspiracy stuff worked a few decades ago, before the internet and camera phones made the instantaneous spread of information an everyday thing. For that pitch to work people have to be dependent on books and telephones for their information. It's the time required to actually investigate the conspiracy claim that grants it strength. These days anyone can quickly find out that the claim is all hot air. Just off the top of my head, I think the best way to make a conspiracy like that (suppression of information) plausible is to generate a lot of different personas and use them all, cooperatively, to prop up the same idea. Maybe one persona could be a brilliant but reclusive inventor tinkering in his garage. Another could be a university student who is starting to question what his professors are telling him. Another could be a stay-at-home-mom blogger who's fascinated by this stuff she's learning. Another could be a heroic working man who just wants the truth to come out. Also, don't underestimate the power of photoshop and basic movie magic to create a couple compelling artifacts that can be dropped into the web every now and then.

    You obviously have enough time to do it right, and you do appear to want to be convincing. You've just got to come forwards in time and make the modern world work FOR you instead of against you.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    By the way guys....on a related but different subject, NASA just released a video that essentially validates Rossi's E-cat technology.

    No really, nasa is saying that lenr with nickel and hydrogen is possible:
    (same vid:

    Of course they come up with some explanation involving neutrons, but you can tell that he's having a hard time saying that with a strait face.
  • Vote Up0Vote Down
    January 2012
    Counter arguments appear in:
    >  My purpose is to spread awareness.

    Well, consider it spread.  Unless there is a demonstrable prototype of electrogavtics or related technology, it get's added to the "unlikely technology" pile.

    @Matt_Maier - sadly, conspiracy theories abound on the internet.  If anything, it gives them fuel because the "true believers" can reach more people.

  • Matt,

    In fact, many have noticed (see many of the links I provide) that, in the case of asymmetrical capacitors a weight loss can be detected when the positive end is placed upwards (weight gain occurs when placed downward), however, virtually all capacitors used and produced today are symmetrical and the electrogravitic effects are cancelled, making it impossible to detect them.

    As for the conspiracy...  Even with the Interweb, the vast majority - who think that there are no conspiracies anymore - do not look at or dismiss information pointing to the conspiracies.  I will NOT pretend there is no conspiracy, as I know full well there is.

    If few are looking at the information to begin with, and a number who do see it dismiss it, thinking that the evening news would surely report on it (yeah, right), We will continue to be the cattle of Those deeply involved in the conspiracies.

    Have You taken a look at the link I offered: ?  It provides links to further information, one example is: .

    We are embroiled in conspiracy and Human guinea pig experimentation.


    Thank You for that informative vid.  Much that threatens the power elite is mocked, suppressed and hidden.


    I liked how the female "expert" declared, while flipping though pages without reading, that they didn't pertain to "reality."  Good stuff!  And You may have noted that I have mostly avoided giving links to these "lifters."  Also...  Was the metal of the vacuum chamber taken into account?  Could it be interfering with things?

    Anyway, what You have shown is that perhaps the "lifters" operate on ion wind, but NOT shown that there is nothing to electrogravitics.

    And...  Deep research into the bulk of the conspiracy "theories" will make One, like Me, conspiracy AWARE.  If You read the links above, You will change Your tune if You want to be honest.

    EDIT to add:  Also...  In the vid, they did NOT measure the thrust as compared to the force of the wind, but just arbitrarily assigned ALL the thrust to the wind.  Frankly, it sure looked to Me as though there was more thrust than the wind could account for.  Just sayin'.

  • Haha, "Could the metal be blocking gravity?" That's funny. Are you going to start branching out into a gravity shield conspiracy now?

    How does a homeless guy find so much time to spend on the library's computers? Shouldn't you be spending your time walking to a soup kitchen, or panhandling, or finding a job...or something else that advances any goal besides "get ignored on the internet?"
  • Matt...  I was suggesting that the metal may interfere with, or bleed off, the fields produced.  This possibility does exist.

    I think My situation is irrelevant to the question at hand.

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