I really liked the system in the video. Any ideas on the cost of materials?

Hello guys,

Nice videos and links!

I was reviewing laconic_world  post about system size, and I think that we can start the design process with a smaller system than my previous suggestion. What do you think about start small, with a 200sqf(18m2) system? Based on the same source, a system like this could support 50 adult fishes and 44 sqf (4m2) of growing area. I’m ready to start building a test bed as soon as we achieve consensus about the basic parameters.

What is the theoretical yearly food production of such a system?

Fish:

Considering tilapia fish, we can have in optimal conditions a grown rate of approx. 1kg in one year per fish. So, with 50 fishes my yearly yield is max 50kg of tilapia, probably less.

Vegetables:

What yearly yield we can reach in 44sqf?  It depends on a lot of variables, but lets talk about tomatoes first:

The yearly productivity of conventional tomato crops in Brazil  is 50000kg/ha/ year (http://www.sober.org.br/palestra/6/718.pdf, reference in portuguese, sorry). The same source stated the organic tomatoes reacha a productivity of 25000kg/ha/ year. Lets suppose that the conventional yield is our minimal goal. So, with 44sqf, we can expect a yield of 20kg of tomatoes out of the system in one year.

Which  Aquaponics  technique is the most convenient for this scale (thin film, flush and drain etc)?

I think that this link and the accompanying discussion in the backyard aquaponics forum is a good start:

http://aquaponicdevelopments.com/web-links/1-main-central-news/161-031-aquaponics-sysetm-productivity

Which materials choose for the tanks and growing beds?
What is the best material for the growing media? How much it will cost?
Which pumps and sensors we should need?
Which plants we can grow in this system? Is it viable to grow beans, lentils, rice, wheat and other grains in this aquaponic system?
How much energy this system are going to consume?
How many hours a day are necessary for the management and maintenance of this system?

What if we figured out the different tools and technologies, then created  wiki page linking them, then developed the information on each of those pages?

I support the idea of working to organize and improve the information on the wiki about food production, specially in closed loop systems. It is necessary and there is a lot of work to be done. Surely I'm ready to help.

On the other hand, I think  it is also important to start practical experiments, to "reality check" the feasibility of some concepts. I'm quite intrigued, for instance,  about the actual food  production per area and associated costs, in terms of energy and money,  in closed systems. Other issue is the quality of the final product: in the source  http://www.aquaponicshowto.com/how-much-space/page/60/  ,cited by laconic_world, are some comments about the superior quality of earth grown vegetables.

Also, while I agree that tinkering in a hands-on fashion is useful with manufacturing, the complexity of this system demands more research.  The biological element makes it much more demanding as does the large financial resources that would be necessary to make something viable.

This is a wonderful and much needed effort!

Suggestion: It would be good to get some prototypes done this summer but the data that could be assembled in a short time could add a lot of value to them, so I agree that a bit more research should be done before any physical prototypes are planned and implemented. Maybe see how much data and planning can be done in 2-3 weeks and then go from there?

Chickens are definitely great to immediately start out with for any system.

Idea: I've also heard of an idea for chinampa aquaculture with grates and chicken wire between the islands, then chickens are supposed to eat insects by the raised beds and their droppings fertilize the water. This would be more of a large scale aquaponic system.

On FeF and the food issue: It looks like FeF has tried food production in the past but it has never really taken off since they are focusing on important machine production and Marcin doesn't really have all the answers yet either. So it looks like this is more of an online and off site OSE project for now.

Aquaponics overview: It seems like no one has really published a fully documented open source design for a full closed loop aquaponics system, is that the case? If so it's going to take a bit of research and prototyping to produce the first finished design. It looks like with http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/aquaponics-how-to
aquaponics principles video and designs http://theurbanfarmingguys.com/wiki/knowledgebase-2/aquaculture-aquaponics/aquaponics-system-plans/40-gallon-tote-basement-system plus the OSE aquaponics page we have enough information to start with.

Proposed goals: The final goal is a closed loop aquaponics system. Maybe the first prototype can be basic and use fish food, with plans for expanding into experiments for a closed loop system.

Proposed plan: We could get some more numbers and build metrics of how much of everything is needed and how it will cycle through the system. Then the design theory should be done enough for an effective prototype. Then we should have someone knowledgeable write up and draw up a basic diagram of the ideal closed loop aquaponics system being planned to visualize what elements will be needed, maybe with the metric numbers listed for scaling. Then the theory and metrics can be used to draw up physical designs for a first prototype, then a bill of materials, and sources for the cheapest parts. Then get the prototype 1 made and tested, and start working on adding parts of the closed loop system. Mmm, I can almost taste the tilapia!

Question: For optimal production you need tools to measure the system to make sure its running correctly. There's a basic list of things to measure here for hydroponics: http://www.n55.dk/MANUALS/HOME_HYDRO/HOME_HYDRO.html Light, pH, Conductivity, Nutrients, Temperature, Water quality. What tools are used to measure those? Where are good places to get those tools?

Thanks to: laconic_world for that list and http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/User:Conor and Rasmus for collecting and distilling a lot of great information! 

@mjn

I actually learned about your website from Backyardaquaponics.com/forum it's a really excellent source of guys/girls that have been doing aquaponics for years.  Several of them could give you the realistic results.

Alright, I started a little aquaponics system, I have just now purchased most things, it has run me about $275, I expect to spend another $75.  There is a similar sized system I saw retail for $2750, so though $350 is a lot of money to me, it is a great improvement over standard prices.  Once everything is together I plan to wiki it up.

compost > nutrients + sun + CO₂ > algae > **rotifers** > fish > humans > waste <<<<<<

**I didn't see rotifers on the wiki, something to consider while I apply for a membership. Those little buggers have eaten a large quantity of my algae.

I will be making a post soon, my little free-time has moved from aquaponics to resolving the raccoon-in-my-coop issue I faced recently.

The original post is taken from Growing Power, a Milwaukee-based non-profit organization dedicated to improving the quality of available food choices in "urban food deserts".

I've been there several times, and I've met Will Allen personally.  I've been to several of their paid weekend workshops, to learn more about their urban farming methods, and I'm convinced that implementing some or all of what they are doing is going to be good for FeF.  They easily produce more than enough food on that 3 acre plot to feed a village at least the size of "Dunbar's number" that has been mentioned before.

I took lots of video footage & pics too, but after my first visit, I think their new corporate sponsors were frowning on the use of video cameras, so I promised not to post my footage on the internet. I can't really share that part, but I can share my experiences and knowledge gained by the workshops.

IF I get to visit FeF, I'll be happy to show the videos & pics I have to anyone who wants them, but I can't share digital copies of same by promise to Growing Power.

In one of the workshops, there was an exercise between teems of participants, and we were given an urban scenario, where we had to come up with a plan of action to bootstrap an urban farming operation, similar to what is shown in the video.  One of the major stumbling blocks that came up for all of us, was the division of labor, especially the really thankless parts that still need to be done 365 days a year for any farm to work, and especially for something this concentrated.

There are lots of thankless and labor intensive jobs in farming, and without a dedicated GROUP of people to pull it off, it will fail miserably, and blow much monetary resource in the process, if not careful.  If it is never in a position to risk capital failure, I contend that it probably was underfunded, and thus also doomed to fail, but on the plus side, if one can effectively market the products that are made from such a setup, it can easily (or rather simply) grow into a self-sustaining part of FeF.

I think there is a labor shortage, and without solving that, this is likely not to yield nearly as good a results and its potentially capable of.

I recently got the approval of my wife to have us "take a vacation" in the direction of FeF, with the intent of visiting and actually seeing first-hand what is there, and how they are doing life in general.  Not sure when I could pull it off yet, but it has at least passed the "Board of Directors" approval process, and we fully expect that such a visit would be liken to camping in the rough, if we were to stay overnight...  She's still OK with going :)

I also think that the living quarters and food infrastructure probably needs to be improved, if for no other reason, than to make it more appealing for the people who are being asked to voluntarily show up to fill the recent job postings, ala the "Dream Team 16", etc.  I do see a conflict with running an active producing farm, and not paying the farm workers, though...  Not sure how that would be handled...

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by "post a technical discussion", so I probably don't know how to do that (yet).  Pointers are welcome ;)

I think there's a danger of re-inventing the wheel here. There are already many online instructions about how to build aquaponics systems. They mightn't fly the "open-source" banner, but people have posted free plans online.

Check out 'Farm Fountain', 'Barrelponics' and the Backyard Aquaponics forum.

There is so much aquaponics information available online that anyone who is serious about building their own system, and has an Internet connection, can find out everything they need to know. It is a solved problem.

i havent read this whole post, i will later i promise.

i was thinking of setting up a small aquaponics in the backyarrd. i was going to be using old bathtubs as the grow beds and am temted to use them as gthe the fish tank aswell or i might use the ICB(??) the big liquid storage containers.

using as many open source ideas

^^ thats them

yeah you can get them around here for 100 or sofood grade, just need a little modification for insulation

I heard Will Allen speak last Spring at the sustainability conference held at UDC. In addition his incredible results in food production his farming system does quite a lot more: vermiculture, producing tons of soil and fixing carbon there instead of letting it escape into the atmosphere, producing quantities of worms, which can also be sold, training and employing a number of inner city youths, processing huge quantities of organic waste that would otherwise end up in landfills. And I believe his profits are around $100,000 (which all gets invested back into the organization, the surrounding community, and expansion, since it's non-profit). This is all really exciting, but as I believe someone mentioned further up, it's all very labor-intensive. So I was really excited to hear about this project: http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1651556528/robotic-first-fruits-farm-sustainable-food-energy - which is essentially the same system, except that he's developing open source robots to do a lot of the laborious stuff. And it's in Germantown, MD- which is right in my backyard (when I'm in the US, that is). I'll be there in March and April and I look forward to checking it out!

Hello,

I designed some systems while working on aquaponics in Thailand and a few more whilst working in the Netherlands. I have drawn some in Sketch-up. How may I post these to share my designs? The first one I wanted to post addresses the problem of media-beds becoming clogged over time and creating dead zones. Mine can be cleaned without having to remove the media. It is also in sections so it can be put together in whatever length the growing area will allow.

Regards,

Jason

Hello roleic

There are many greenhouse designs that will use very little heat to keep warm. A Mike  Oehler type is one example. You can have up to 10 cubic measurements of growing area for every cubic measurement of fish area. Some people do 1 to 1 but I would say you want a bit more than that for minimum. This will help keep the water clean. Having some sort of solids collector after the fish would be a great idea too. You can take that solid waste bio-digest it to get energy and then compost it to raise worms and insects then take the resulting castings and place them in a permeable sack into a de-gasser and put that back into the growing area. There will always be waste, either directly feedable or compostable. You can build a Black solder fly farm as well as a worm farm to feed carnivorous fish. You can build vertical algae panels to grow for the vegie fish as well as duckweed ponds, many of these can be stacked so you can keep space at a minimum. I would post some of these designs but the forum will not let me post sketchup files.