Open Source Ecology Forums

mygost

Hi, (1st i think all these projects & dudes are truly awesome!)

Have any of the hand-crafted contributors took a serious look into "free energy devices" ?

OSE focus on agriculture & housing because everyone needs basically a shelter, and to eat (and love too... i'll make the open blueprint soon :-p )
As far i as understood something in this world, ENERGY is the backbone of every human activity!

You have a shelter you need to power it !
You have a car/tractor/machine you need to power it !

Of course, i'm all for solar collector, wind turbine, water turbine... etc...
I won't teach anyone that relying on gas/oil is a bad idea in the long term, we all know that now!

I've seen the "power cube" is that's great but still running on gasoline... for now!
So the question remains : could any of the "free energy" technologies i've seen on the net be worth using in OSE ?

Here is a short list of what i think might be worth 1-look into & 2-give it a try !

- stirling engine
basic description : reuse of exhaust pipe heat to increase steam/gasoline engine efficiency

- pantone
basic description : use of exhaust pipe heat to 'plasma-vaporized' water and mix it with gasoline input so the engine can run on 25% gasoline, 75% plasma-vaporized-water

- stanley meyer water cell (or alike) for HHO massive electrolyze
basic description : hi-perf electrolyze of water into HHO (H2+02) to be mixed up with gasoline input so the engine runs on (variable) 25% gasoline, 75% (2H2 + O2)
some claims it can work on 100% water...

- perendev or (or alike) electro-magnetic generators
basic description : electro-magnetic generator, like an electro-magnetic motor but here turned into a generator...

- etc...

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a note about scams:
it is true that this "free energy" field has seen lots of scams, false claims & so on... for sometimes it looks too good to be true!!
just remember few hundreds years ago, intellectual authority or scientist or people would not have allowed 400.000 Kg of steel to fly, for it was not the time yet, now we call it a commercial airplane... and no more argument on it!!
-just make it work-

a note about "over-unity" controversy:
i've been educated as an engineer & as a human,
as human being i've discovered that many things i've been taught were not not accurate or even wrong...
as an engineer i've discovered that many things i've been taught were never proved or even tested... so i wisely i keep in mind many of what i've learn could be wrong too...
i have no interest in arguing over this book, this so-called "law" of this or that...
just remember few hundreds years ago, intellectual authority or scientist or people would not have allowed 400.000 Kg of steel to fly, for it was not the time yet, now we call it a commercial airplane... and no more argument on it!!
-just make it work-

Dawg

@ mygost - Hello. I find the subjects you speak of very interesting. Any one of these technologies could change the world. However, in the context of what we are trying to do I think it is premature. We should try and adapt current technologies that are well established before spending precious person hours on what amounts to research. Once the core of the GVCS is up and running, then it will be time to explore fringe technologies.

If you have a burning interest in these technologies and you feel they would be a great fit, I encourage you to go there. I am also going to look at a couple ideas if I have the time and money in my pocket. If I am successful at building a prototype that works then I will bring it to the group. Otherwise I will keep it to myself and concentrate on the task at hand.

What do you think?

The Dawg

Jiff64138

I think this would be the best thread to post some of the things I have been looking at on alternative energy. The creator of the whack-a-mole and the animatronics of chucky cheese is working with a former employee on this supposed new fuel called Carbohydrillium "Carbohydrillium is a new, powerful, green fuel created in the laboratories of Creative Engineering, Inc. of Orlando, Florida with applications spanning cooking, cutting, braising, and even for use as a pollution free fuel for generators and other internal combustion engines where it is advantageous to emit little or no pollution from its combustion." I sent an email to get information but I got no response.
"The gas may be purchased directly from Creative Engineering, Inc. or may be generated on site for clients who wish to have their own production facility. Creative Engineering, Inc. will sell the production system to large users or local distributors so that your costs and delivery are under your control." http://carbohydrillium.com/
if it comes from a high yield crop and convincing them to make it an open business it would be excellent.
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Secondly on the subject of what mygost posted how much does vapor increasing mileage considerably? just a skeptic looking for information but would not be surprised if they did suppress as I hear "Shell Oil Co. wrote "Fuel Economy of the Gasoline Engine" (ISBN 0-470-99132-1); it was published by John Wiley & Sons, New York, in 1977. On page 42 Shell Oil quotes the President of General Motors, he, in 1929, predicted 80 MPG by 1939. Between pages 221 and 223 Shell writes of their achievements: 49.73 MPG around 1939; 149.95 MPG with a 1947 Studebaker in 1949; 244.35 MPG with a 1959 Fiat 600 in 1968; 376.59 MPG with a 1959 Opel in 1973."
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Also would it work to use solar panels heat dissipation in boxes on buildings as a water heater or raise the air temperature of a room that they are on as they are already dark colored. such as how this guy is talking about with just metal -

mygost

@ dawg : greetings- I know, many things are "premature" before their time to blossom comes just because it's time...eventually!
i believe many of these technologies (stirling, pantone, mixing water + std gas/oil) could be bridges toward clean & free energy.
Unfortunately my personal focus (for the moment) is not on building something like it (part of it due to my "craftless-ness"), still i've always been curious & interested in free energy & a friend sent me a link about these dudes making open hardware stuff, and i jumped on it simply to throw in the "free energy" topic 'cause:
-i like this kind of project & community and i like bringing/sharing ideas that might have a positive impact
-OSE is about self-sustainability, autonomy, independence, freedom so at some point having a self-sustainable free-energy might be a great asset!!
-it might "clic" someone willing to build a universal power-engine to go beyond the "standard" gas/oil engine... a universal power-engine running on universal "very low cost" fuel known as "water" would be awesome!
-i'd be delighted, a few years from now , to build or buy a water engine to power a house or a car...

@ Jiff64138 : greetings too!
Unfortunately, from time to time small companies are created here and there claiming 'revolutionary' technology (such as water-power car or hybrids), and quite always, these company-starter often disappear like that !
One may suspect that petroleum+automotive conglomerate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_companies_by_revenue) with way more (i've added the majors only) than $4000 billions revenues in 2010 might be willing to drive the energy market toward oil/gas & scarcity for profit and kill the competition, well why not?

>Secondly on the subject of what mygost posted how much does vapor increasing mileage considerably?
Pantone : (as far as i know works mainly -if not only- with diesel engines)
Well, i not a chemist here but it is not vapor itself, some say it's much more a "plasma-H20" that appears when water is heated enough and H2O molecules start to dissociate into 2H2 + O2 which become a explosive and recombine into H20...
Firemen know if a fire is too hot/intense, pouring water over it is bad bad idea for it makes the water vaporize & turn into 2H2+O2 and then burn fueling the fire even more!
I know that sound strange, but if it work why not? (did you know wheat flour is explosive too ? damn! i have some in my kitchen, and i make bread from it!!)

Let me also, just for creative awareness, point out the "war emergency power", water+methanol, used 70 years ago to double engine power : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/War_emergency_power

note about http://carbohydrillium.com/
it looks like a little scam here...
1-the website does not look serious
2-it typically looks like a old H2 bottle or standard butane C4H10
do they try to re-sell a standard butane gas bottle by changing the name ?
Carbo-hydrillum ? C4 H10 ? butane ? it can't be serious!

Jiff64138

thank you for the quick reply. I bet Carbo-hydrillum is fake.

Jason

An open source free energy unit would obviously be the ultimate goal. We don't even need to give it a spot in the "top 50" machines, because it ranks as machine/technology number 0 in the hierarchy.

Currently, the GVCS could be described as a complete community, but batteries not included. Basically, the GVCS is all about making everything, with energy as the only need.

The problem with free energy is that it's never open source. Invariably, something always happens to the inventor or the invention is bought up, etc.

I don't know if perhaps this particular area of pursuit should be split off from the main organization or not. I wouldn't want to see the other 50 machines' progress being slowed down because of controversy or persecution. That being said, there needs to be an open source FE machine and community.

Anyway, for those interested, here is the largest compilation of paths to free energy that I've found on the net:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/

This gentleman has put all the info into a 2200 page book:
http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/PJKBook.html

For those in the community that doubt free energy is possible, I would suggest focusing your efforts on the other machines which you feel are the most important.

stuart

The pressure that one would have to go through in coming out of the closet with an alternate form of sexuality is similar to a person that is curious to discuss, understand develop, and try alleged free energy. In no way do we want to keep people from talking about things that they may feel passionate about when it comes to changing the world. In the same way that we use the wiki for anything else to test and share our thoughts and information, it would be wise to post the different folks that are working on free energy, get the bill of materials, the science involved, and instructions of how to build these devises so that we can figure out if they are bogus or not.

Dawg

Everyone is surely welcome to discuss just about anything here. If the interest is there, I say go for it. Just keep in mind that as I've learned recently, Marcin has a pretty narrow funding perspective. There are projects on the farm that he supports financially without hesitation but everything else at this point has to be self funded.

So my intention earlier in this thread was not to discourage but to suggest that it may not be something getting official support for a long while. But please feel welcome here. I personally would love to hear more.

The Dawg

PulseFuelNerd

I have spent the last four years studying both renewable energy and free energy devices. Having gone full circle- let me sum up my adventure: definitely shift the bulk of your efforts to renewable energy. We need real solutions for today! Getting off-grid seems important to most, but not so easily done. For those that own banks- purchasing your independence is easy. The rest of us, need help!

I found it less expensive to purchase solar panels and to be up and running, than to try to research and build something that is not commercially available. But this thought changes as you include more people and their needs longer term.

I support the effort behind home built steam generators in a big way. Having laid this as the foundation, let us climb out on a limb.

I have searched the world for a free energy device. Currently, there are none available commercially. Also, there is none available privately. In fact, There is no proof currently, that such a device exists or could exist. But there is a hole bunch of theory. Each has its own strengths and weaknesses. Suffice it to say- long story short: endless discussions....

I would like to focus your attention to something my mind kept returning to through all the dead end frustrations of four years of research and building.

There is only one device in existence with a cop greater than one. It is available commercially, and is actually classified as household in terms of quantities produced.

Any guesses?

It is the heap pump. Refrigerators and air conditioners are household throughout many countries. The heat pump is the only device that I have found commercially available today with a cop not only greater that one, but many times over!

Heat pumps are unparalleled in that they defy the status quo of a world of (use it up and throw it away) less than 1.0.

My point is- why would you continue to spend effort on free energy device & theory, without first understanding and then taking advantage of the wonders of heatpumps.

These are well defined and documented. And yet even the trained know very little about the actual workings.

The combination of a heat pump and stirling is thermally symbiotic. One can create temperature differential, the other uses temperature differential.
What would be the result of this union in terms of cop?

I find it ironic:

Heat pumps with high cop's but are available commercially to the point of household.
Stirlings are reported to be less than one cop but can not be purchased.

PulseFuelNerd

What happens to the cop of a heat pump when we use liquid exchangers? (see pdf)

This is significant and it's importance will be revealed....

PulseFuelNerd

Ok, here is a preview of my leading concept- submitted for your peer review, instruction, and comment.

This is the union of two separate cycles: R410 heat pump cycle and ethanol steam engine cycle.

This is stylized and does not represent the most current designs - there is more to share.

Open sourcing these concepts into the public domain keeps them free.

Please open the attached pdf and ponder upon it - ask questions.

Russell Philips

digit

i'm really glad to see already mention of http://www.free-energy-info.co.uk/ and the shortlist of technologies in the original post (especially the pantone geet engine, electro-mag generators and water as fuel) and others.

another great resource i encourage you all to make regular use of is peswiki. http://peswiki.com

if going "john hutchison" and making zero-point and anti-grav technologies seems too far, let me offer an encouraging lower bar, easier to aspire to: http://www.ted.com/talks/william_kamkwamba_on_building_a_windmill.html http://www.ted.com/talks/william_kamkwamba_how_i_harnessed_the_wind.html
what this says to me... "no excuses". :) and like william kwamba himself said... "whatever happen, dont give up."

we can have this open-source decentralised energy thing licked easy, surely. would be great to see ideas well integrated with the other 50 items.

ps, i thought (from watching many eben moglen and richard stallman videos) "open source" and "public domain" were not synonymous.

Matt_Maier

Well, I don't think there's any such thing as free energy, but it is possible to convert energy in clever and situation-specific ways.

For example, if you've got a farm then you've got a mulch pile. If you've got a mulch pile then you've got a heat source. If you fill the mulch pile with garden hose, then run water through the garden hose, the water that comes out of the mulch pile could be as much as 130 degrees Fahrenheit. When the water stops coming out hot you've got fertilizer for your farm.

http://www.builditsolar.com/Projects/BioFuel/biofuels.htm#CompostHeat

That's "free" in the sense of Pareto optimal.

digit

when i hear [/read] "free energy", i think of it like "free software". free as in freedom. free like in free speech, and not [necessarily] free as in free beer.

~~~

rather than make a double post, i thought i'd edit this in here.

"they didn't talk about free energy devices though" some guy in irc, relating to the ted talk, insinuating energy wasnt on the cards.

incase anyone else missed it... energy is definately already on the gvcs table:

generally:
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Energy
&
specifically:
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Power_Cube
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Steam_Engine
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Gasifier_Burner
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Steam_Generator
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Solar_Concentrator
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Wind_Turbine
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Electric_Motor_Generator
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Pelletizer
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Hydraulic_Motor
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Universal_Power_Supply
http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/Nickel-Iron_Battery

:)

though that's not to say we can discount the possibility of devices, which by conventional measures, apear to defy the second law of thermo-dynamics. it does however say we've plenty [less controversial] energy devices that can be made, and will still liberate people with decentralised energy generation/collection.

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