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ZafotheNinja

Hey all, I have noticed that the main page has being active (Although still not updated) and was wondering how this forum was doing. It looks like it's still pretty dead, so I have decided to make a point of checking the forums at least once a day. Hopefully there are at least a few of you out there that would do this as well, as I believe these forums could be very helpful to the OSE community, as well as several other communities.

I see through the old posts that there is at least one community in Australia and also at least one (semi) active Youtube channel, I would love to get a group together to build some GVCS machines down here in the Chattanooga/Cleveland TN area. Anyone around here that is interested? I was also wondering if anyone is up for some theoretical discussion on community/economic models. For example, is the CEB press really needed? Houses can theoretically be built out of mud, and how would the resources to build the press be gathered? Would it all be imported? Another Important question, If you are importing all of these materials to other countries and building and open source community, how is their culture maintained?

Thanks for all of your time, I hope someone reads this.

mrtorrence

I'm up in Cincinnati and would be open to work together on any builds. I've got most of the materials to build an arc welder/arc furnace and would be interested in building an electric motor/generator as well. What are you looking to build? What's your background?

ZafotheNinja

Sweet, your not too terribly far away. I am an entrepreneur, I have a bit of experience with autocad, but haven't really had the funding to make much. I have made a few circuits such as the Joule Thief and can work a soldering iron.

What I would really like to build is the life trac, but it seems current builds are more expensive then commercial tractors. But I am interested in how a society could be started from the ground up and what the economic system of such would be like. I have been wanting to learn to weld, so that is great. I have plans for a plasma cutter but never got around to building it, do you know if a plasma cutter could be used for welding? As far as building an electric motor/generator, that would be awesome I have actually had a few ideas on making an improved motor.

Glad people are actually still here.

ZafotheNinja

Okay, it's been a month and there is one person besides me so far. The thread has 95 views, really feel free to drop a comment so I and others know you are here.

So, I have been thinking. It seems that for a barter system to work properly there has to be work of some kind or other. So to build a society you have to build jobs. Sure you can come in with all these open source tools and build a house, but what if by building it you have taken someone else's job?

Just a thought.

DavidIAm

You are taking other people's jobs by not using open source equipment. Consider the math.

You go to john deere and buy a tractor to build your house with. The money you spend on it gets split between materials, the workers who create it, the capital used to create it, and the owners of the company. All of they money spent on capital and owners - probably most of the cost of the thing - COULD have been spent on something else. you LOST the opportunity to spend that money on other things - other things that support other people's jobs much more, like small businesses in your area which is re-spent in your area - because you spent it on John Deere capital and ownership. That money goes elsewhere - out of city, out of state, to the owners who likely live in big cities and collect most of their money for the future security of them and theirs.

So you will actually be doing the opposite, and taking somebody else's job (worse, YOUR NEIGHBORS JOBS) by spending money on big capital commercial equipment instead of open source toolsand services, because that money COULD have stayed local and employed people locally to fabricate your open source equipment.

ZafotheNinja

Humm, well I was going to add that Life-Trac builds where more expensive, but latest documented price is ~9,000.00 inc labor. If that holds true for today and includes the price of the Power-Core then that's pretty decent.

That still leaves another problem though, you have hired all these people to help build your tractor but now it is completed. So what now, are all these people out of a job? Then, here you are, the only person with a tractor in the country, your cornering the market on landscaping, house building, trash removal, stump/rock removal, demolition and probably many more. The point is, as soon as you use your new tractor you are taking someone else's job and interrupting the market as a hole.

I am of course basing this on an already established economic structure, if you are building a society from the ground up then there is no problem other then those who have money would take the market share leaving those without, without. Also considering that I have not seen so far, on these forums, even speculation on how a society would be built from ground up.

It seems to me like a Economic Structure might be better off without all these machines when starting up. Or alternatively, labor with these machines be given freely while a city is being built, this however would not be a good scenario for an already established Economic Structure\City.

ZafotheNinja

Bump again,

So, given that you are building a country from the ground up would it be possible to build an economic structure that is not based on the monetary system?

The way I see it, ideally you would have a plot of land, in really ideal situations the land would be payed in full. With no overhead you might start out buying seeds and importing equipment. Now you have some overhead costs, but when it comes time to harvest and you sell what you can't use then you end up in abundance. Lets say that everyone in your country was required to have a crop, then this new country would have a large amount of exports and the overall wealth of the country is rising. eventually you will need to protect the country from invaders, thus incurring more overhead, but hopefully by that time the country will have the funds needed to buy weapons.

Okay so the country is established but what about its economy? Well, if everyone is already producing enough food for them plus enough to sell, and the imported machinery is free to build the initial homes then at this point there is nothing to sell. the people could exchange verities of food and recipes, but not necessarily need and money to facilitate these exchanges.

Okay, fast forward to a more industrious tome in development, things are being made that can be sold, but at this point no money has been established. Any of these items can be exported for profit, but for the purpose of this model lets say that within this country, all new inventions or discoveries are shared with the community, each house having the resources to build whatever is invented if they so choose. Where does this system suffer from having no established money? Is money even needed?

Thoughts, Comments?

ZafotheNinja

On an off topic note, does anyone know where the latest gvcs files are? I found some, but not the latest and not all of the set. Has there been any development towards completing it?

ZafotheNinja

Ha, found it

http://opensourceecology.org/wiki/CEB_Press/Current_Downloads

I have a sneaking suspicion that I'm in the wrong forums, I'll keep you posted.

Edit: Well, if you look hard enough there are some updated areas. The blog on the website updates pretty regularly now and the wiki is actually being updated, just not the main page. (The powercube got updated, that's good.)

Yoonseo's https://opentechco.co is still online, can't find any place to register though. The YouTube channel also seems to be getting some activity. If anyone is interested I have opened up a website and forums, maybe it will be a bit easier to register with. It's: http://osereborn.x10.bz maybe we can revive the open collaboration of OSE and jumpstart this project back again.

OSEReborn is a community, not a dictatorship like some have said has become of OSE. A democracy where everyone gets a say on what the group should do. A group, who band together to change the world.

Coloredcoat

Yep, still here. Curious if the original intent of the website ever was realized or if the authors ever got enough experience making and designing things that they realized the complexity and cost of what they were proposing.

Howdy, Stranger!

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