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Distributed generation powered data center
  • Hello. I am bitcoin (weusecoins.com) user. I think one of the main downfalls of the currency is having its power generated by centralized power systems and therefore having to make the change between dollars and bitcoins to keep the system running. I think a solution to this problem would be a data center powered through a distributed power generation system. This will decouple the currency from the dollar and provide the open source movement its own medium of exchange.
     
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  • I think one of the goals of a resource based economy is to eliminate the use of currency - regardless of it's form.  It seems to me that bitcoin is just another attempt to create a private currency, though perhaps the motivation is a bit more pure.

     
  • The resource based economy the venus project talks about?

    Just another private currency? With the only thing separating it from other currencies is the motivation for its creation? Hardly. I would say if anything it has similar motives to other private currencies but its design is what sets it apart from anything else.

    Why is eliminating the use of currency a goal? I'm just curious of your own personal rationale for this. I used to think this myself but have changed positions.

    From the creator of bitcoins:

    Yes, [we will not find a solution to political problems in cryptography,] but we can win a major
    battle in the arms race and gain a new territory of freedom for several years.
    Governments are good at cutting off the heads of a centrally controlled networks like Napster,
    but pure P2P networks like Gnutella and Tor seem to be holding their own.
    It's very attractive to the libertarian viewpoint if we can explain it properly. I'm better with code
    than with words though.

    So sure the ideal is no currency but as it stands the open e farm needs money and funding. Right now it is limited by donations and ultimately banks. This is a proposed solution to that issue.
     
  • We could seriously have an entire forum with subforums dedicated to monetary issues. It is a very complicated and important subject. I think the important thing at this point is for everyone to simply be aware of its importance and complexities. Solutions will come with time, but if the whole topic doesn't even enter people's minds in the first place, it will never change.

    Anyway Anderxander, do you think you could assist OSE with setting up a way to receive donations in bitcoins?
     
  • Yes thank you for stopping me lol. The money issue is my passion.

    Yes I can and would be more than happy to.
     
  • Thats great Anderxander. You should contact elifarley to get it set up. He's managing the website.
     
  • Sorry if I sounded like I was dissing bitcoin.  It is a worthy thing to do, IMO.

    One of the underlying rationales behind the Global Village Construction Set (GVCS) is to enable the development of local, resource-based economies.  This is the same idea that Project Venus is exploring, but OSE is going about in a different, but complementary, manner.  If a relatively small group of people, say 60-200, had the capability to manufacture much or most of their basic needs, it would give them a degree of independence from currency-based economies.  This is a goal, naturally.  Pragmatically OSE will be dealing with currency based economies for all of it's near-term lifetime.

    With that in mind, bitcoin could play a useful  role.  Jason's idea to get donations in bitcoin is a good one.

    - Mark

     
  • sorry if I seemed short. The currency problem is a passion of mine.


    I think the venus project has been stagnant for years. OSE is putting into practice everything they have been dreaming about.

    I'm glad we're on the same page. I agree with the creator of bitcoins and take the position that bitcoins are not a solution but a tool in the belt of the open source community to help advance this set of ideas. I believe bitcoin will play an integral role in transitioning from currency based economies to abundance economies.

    One reason being the introduction of a new concept of money for people to contrast with the current one. As resource based economy is far off in the minds of most people, this will stimulate thought about another way of doing things and a different way of doing the same thing, only p2p. And I know this isn't a strong argument but I think the step from p2p currency to p2p resource based economy is a small step and a important simplification.

    Not only donations but selling gvcs in bitcoins or even partial payment. This could alleviate cash flow and investment issues. And even though bitcoins are anonymous their cash usd value could be recorded for tax purposes. Right now 1BTC = $ 8.85 USD. There are roughly 6.5 million bitcoins in circulation. Thats close to $ 60 million in bitcoins with a total of 21 million to be released. And they are divisible up to 8 decimal places. This gives you a virtually unlimited money supply. About Every 2000 blocks added to the chain of transactions the difficulty of the encryption increases. This has been matched with a steady rise in price for over a year.
     
  • We see discussion about the economic system all the time in the media, educational institutions, and among our coworkers, friends, and family in everyday life. Wars have been fought, eg., communism vs capitalism. However, we NEVER hear about or discuss the monetary system. It goes unquestioned. And I'd go so far as to say the montetary system drives the economic system in many ways.
     
  • The money system is the blood of the economic system. It is there to keep things flowing. Production is the heart of the economy. 
    You should also look into where the Federal Reserve Note comes from and its creation process. You'll understand then that the debt cannot be turned back and it was never meant to ever be. 
     
  • I like the discussions from the 20s that occurred among the magnates.  Things like credit, planned obsolescence and public education to create skilled factory workers.
     
  • "to create skilled factory workers" to the magnates meant to create wage slaves. They had policies of loose credit, much like credit cards, to endebt the wage slaves to the magnates. The public education system is a system of indoctrination. It is there to instill you with societal ideas like national pride and "the natural order of things" Tyrants become saviors in history text books.

    The discussions of the 1920' s tricked people into selling their futures on false promises of riches in the stock market and led to the great depression.
     
  • The amazing thing though, is their candid discussion of it- now we have to pull the "Brave New World" mask over everything.  Back then they just straight up said, "Let's make stuff break as soon as we can without driving people to other companies, sell people stuff on credit so they buy stuff they cannot afford and are forced to pay it off over the next couple years and lets start training people on conformity of thought from the cradle so they can support the industrial model better."  Now we have to talk about 'No Child Left Ahead' and blah blah blah... I'l cut myself off here before rambling... preaching to the choir.
     
  • money is a tool used to measure the worth based on its scarcity and demand. As automation rises and the amount of man hours spent decreases, production scarcity also decreases and money ceases to function properly as a way to determine a products worth.
    for a replacement to the current monetary system to work, it will need to be able to measure a products worth in both scarcity and post-scarcity environments.
          
    The only other  system that sounds better than the current one I've heard of is from technocracy in which an items worth is measured by how much energy it takes to produce the item. Once this currency based on energy is spent on an item, it is not transfered to the seller, instead it just leaves the system and is essentially destroyed. It's very similar to communism in that everyone gets an even portion of the amount of energy produced. Also, keep in mind this system requires extremely intelligent management of limited resources and lots of recycling if it were to work. theres a difference between being able to produce to exceed everyones needs and wants and actually having the resources, which means that you need to reuse trash and other materials that would otherwise just be wasted in an economy who's goal is to hoard as much money as possible.

    I just remembered the bartering system which is essentially the resource based economy and while its simple and does work in small communities i don't think it is the right direction to go in since it is a very crude, inaccurate way to determine an items worth.(how many apples is a pie worth?)

    I'm not too familiar with Bitcoin, correct me if im wrong, it seems very similar to any other currency except it lacks a central bank or something like that.

    i don't know of any other systems besides the current system, technocracy, and the bartering system. Do you guys know of any others? i find these kinds of things interesting.
     

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